Future of off roading in our area?

What exactly is the future availability of areas close to us for off roading? From what I can tell, it looks like Paint Rock is gone, and, when I read Nick's comment about possibly selling his rig, it makes me wonder about the places to go riding. Not everyone can load a rig on a trailer, and haul it 100 miles to a site. I am sure there are alot of folks who have to drive their rigs to the places. Is there, or, will there be anywhere to pursue the hobby close to home?

Personal opinion, its going to become more and more pay-to-play.  The days of landowners letting their land be open to everyone are drawing to a close, there's too damned many of us who trash the place.  With all the meth-heads burning down every unoccupied structure, its not going to take long for the landowners to close things up.  And in Estill Fork, TDEC is responding to landowner requests to crackdown on us.  Its not "us" as in the responsible 4X4 operators, is the druken idiotic fools who are tearing down gates, fences, destroying fields and pastures, creating bank erosion and wildcat trails instead of staying on the existing ones etc etc etc.

I think the leased lands are the way its going.

Random note: it is my understanding that in Alabama, all lands are posted by law unless otherwise marked as open.  So even if there are no signs, no fences, no gates, the landowner can still prosecute for trespass if he wants to.

It looks like the 4500 acres in Estill Fork are going to be accessible for us, but its leased, pay2play.  Same thing for Copp Cove.  I am buying access.

The trailering is just like having a boat....you gotta get it to the lake!

xtremepayne wrote: Big Red wrote:   For trespassing, you have to be told one way or another, gate, fence, sign, verbally, etc.  One sign is all it takes. Al   actually you dont have to have signs do you have signs saying your yard is private land same goes for any property if you dont own it, know who does or have permission to be there it is criminal tresspassing no signe needed

Want to bet?

"(4) ENTER OR REMAIN UNLAWFULLY. A person "enters or remains unlawfully" in or upon premises when he is not licensed, invited or privileged to do so. A person who, regardless of his intent, enters or remains in or upon premises which are at the time open to the public does so with license and privilege unless he defies a lawful order not to enter or remain, personally communicated to him by the owner of such premises or other authorized person. A license or privilege to enter or remain in a building which is partly open to the public is not a license or privilege to enter or remain in that part of the building which is not open to the public. A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privileges unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner." (emphasis added)

Read the rest yourself.

http://www.alllaw.com/state_law_search/alabama/

None of the above makes the statement that I condone trespassing or go ride on posted property.  Just pointing out the law as written in the state of Alabama.

And as far as my front yard is concerned, yes I either have to post signs or personally tell you to leave or have some sort of physical barrier in order to legally have you charged with trespassing; the definitions above make that pretty clear. 

Hunting regulations are just the opposite:

alabamatoy wrote: I personally have been told by an attorney that what extremepayne says is correct, despite what big red has cited to the contrary.  I dont know, I aint no lawyer. Also, be aware that most law is actually enacted based on precedent of interpretation of the courts - so what the law clearly says to you and me may be *interpreted* in the courtroom in a substantially different way.  The words like "unimproved and apparently unused land" and "notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner" are phrases that may seem real obvious to you and me, but to a lawyer or a judge may be set by precedent as having another meaning. There may be no "unimproved and apparently usused land" left in Alabama, for example.  I dont know. Regardless, this investment company owns a HUGE qty of land, and is buying more all the time.

I wouldn't use that lawyer then:  The above language is correct per the lawyer that put it in there, his name if Greg something or another and is or used to serve as prosecutor for the City of Madison.  Madison judge ruled the same way.

bluetoy84 wrote: .... The days of using someone else's land for free are long gone , and for good reason. All the local "public" (which is really privately owned) riding places have all been closed off because people have disrespected the landowners by trashing their property. Thats my two cents.

+1.  You should have seen the areas around Duck Pond Rd and Peter Cave in Coppinger Cove last week.  2 large bags easy.  Mostly by people that drink "lite" beer, for some reason.

Personally, I'm glad for pay to play.  If it's free, then it gets trashed.  If it's not and it costs, more than likely it will be taken care of.  Not always, but usually. 

i dont suspes a planted field of crops or recently worked ground counts as inproved grounds cuase it seen to onpen it for a free for all for idiots who think aal groung is public unless marked

ps give me your address and ill come throw stuff in your yard to ruin lawnmower tires and cut doughnuts in it because it was there and other people have done it

now think twice before you speak on the matter

xtremepayne wrote: i dont suspes a planted field of crops or recently worked ground counts as inproved grounds cuase it seen to onpen it for a free for all for idiots who think aal groung is public unless marked ps give me your address and ill come throw stuff in your yard to ruin lawnmower tires and cut doughnuts in it because it was there and other people have done it now think twice before you speak on the matter

Are you serious?  You're threatening me because I quoted and provided a link to the State of Alabama Criminal Code on trespassing?  If this is how you and JR deal with a simple discussion on the web, it's probably not hard to see how you act on the trails.  No wonder landowners are closing off land to four wheelers.

As far as the comment on improved vs. unimproved land, see the first part of the definition, it's also pretty clear simple English.

In case you missed it the first time, here's the link to the Alabama Criminal Code, it's a state.al.us site (which means it's a .gov site and not commerical) and the link works.  Section 13A, Chapter 7 is the relevant section.  Again, for the reading impaired, this is actual state criminal code, it's not "my" language, it's the law as written by the state legislature.    http://www.legislature.state.al.us/CodeofAlabama/1975/coatoc .htm

Note that none of the above means it's OK to trespass, it's just the language of the law.  Don't know why it can't be discussed calmly and intelligently without insults and threats.

  [If this is how you and JR deal with a simple discussion on the web, it's probably not hard to see how you act on the trails.       ] quote     

 u make me laugh.  if this is how you act when u get your pannies in a wad, i am glad you dont ride with us.





oh , thats right. you dont ride.

A lot of people may think that this thread got off topic.  I don't think so.  In fact, I think it represents a perfect example of the current situation we have in the fourwheeling world and pretty much answers the original poster's question. 

A few people ruining it for everyone.  When they hear and see something they don't like such as signs and gates, they throw their little tantrums and then start with the insults and threats.  It happened at Mountain Fork and Coalmine, and, as one noted above, it's happening at Coppinger Cove now.  Land owners get sick of it and close off the area.  We all lose.

In some cases, because clubs like RCRC and it's members are seen as part of the solution, Club members have some options; in others, we'll probably never see that land again. 

In other cases, land owners are seeing the benefits of leasing the land for four wheeling and it's strictly pay to play: Windrock is a good example, as is Wooly's, Summertown, Grey Rock etc.  They do control the environment somewhat so that things like alcohol use and trash is reduced and/or eliminated.  From this perspective, this is good and is one reason why I like PTP: it tends to keep the trash out.

For formerly free and open areas like Coalmine, Estill Fork and Coppinger Cove, I'm glad RCRC and it's members are seen as part of the solution.

Al

jr hall wrote: ....  i cant wait to make a club ride.

Really.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4632426&po stcount=156

Nobody WANTS to have to pay, but the future of this sport is headed in that direction. Yeah, I would love to have a good place to ride for $5 , but you've got to look at it from the landowners point of view. Go buy a few thousand acres of land for $2000/acre ,sell $5 riding permits and see how long it takes you to pay for it. Better yet , just buy some land and open it up to the public for FREE. See how long it takes before it get trashed. The facts are that land is so expensive that a landowner can not afford to let people use their land for free or nearly nothing. It's hard enough to find someone who owns a large tract of land that will even allow four wheel drives on their property at all , much less for free.

Lets say someone buys 500 acres for $1700/acre (if you could ever buy it that cheap) 500x$1700=$850,000.

If you were paying payments on an $850,000 loan would you let me and my buddies come spin our swampers all over your property for $5 each? I wouldn't.

I hate it as much as anyone , but lets face it , this is an expensive hobby and it's not gonna get any cheaper.

We rode about 3/4 of Morris Mtn and it seemed to have two types of trails.  The roads to the obstacles then the class 4/5 obstacles.  There wasn't much in between.  But then again, I was being guided by a friend who never goes near the 3 and below stuff, so I could have missed something.  The obstacles are not mandatory and have bypasses around in addition to the main trail itself.

IMO it is definitely worth the trip.  Good folks there and they are constantly adding new trails.  I heard that the owner even bought a BTF chassis.

Dang Nick, you should run for governor! After a moving post like the one above, I think you would have an upper hand in the political arena. We could call your cabinet "The Skyline Faction".  Just make sure we have public places to ride and oh yeah a lottery.

Good point bud,

sushi

alabamatoy wrote: fal50 wrote: Can you explain how and where this can be done ?  Thanks. Contact Buck Hunters Hunting Club, Regina Fox will sell you a 4X4 or ATV only pass to the 11,000 acres they control in the cove.

Thank you.

I've contacted them.

Big Red wrote: Guy who wrote Alabama's trespassing laws:  Greg Hopkins, Hsv.

http://pview.findlaw.com/view/1863370_1 shows him to be an employee of the City of Huntsville, and his specialties are "Traffic Violations, Misdemeanor, State, Local & Municipal Law".  He's probably not going to freelance on land access issues, but I'll ask.