Dana 60’s or add beef to toy stuff

I vote for 30 spline longs and 38's. Don't tell me they won't hold up to it. Brent has thrashed his beyond belief with 30 spline longs and 38.5x15.50 SX's. He's also running 5.71 gears that everyone claims to be so weak. The only problem he's had is with the steering arm studs and this was due to lack of maintanence more than design failure.

Toyota axles can be built to withstand some serious abuse. I've seen it.

longfields, 38.5s, one wheel in the air, steering at full lock, HAMMERING on it. try that with a stock birfield

 

I just don't think for your situation that D60s is the best option. If you go with 60s you'll have to step up to at least a 42" to have as much ground clearance as a toy axle with 38"s. Like you said, 60's will add at least 500lbs of weight. Another thing is cost. I could build an entire toyota trail rig for what some people spend building a D60 front end. By the time you pay $1000 for a junkyard D60, then add gears locker, high steer, alloy axle shafts, high dollar u-joints, 42" tires, 8 lug wheels, and all the other stuff it will take to make it work under your toyota, you're out some serious cash $$$$$$.

I say go with the toyota axles. If they don't hold up you can easily sell the toyota stuff and go to 1tons, but I don't see you having any problems. If you're not breaking what you have with the 36's, then it will definately hold up to 38s with 30 spline longfields.

 

If you were starting fresh - I'd say go 60.  But since you already have a decent setup - throw in the Longfield mega kit and be happy.


Really, any way you go - it ain't cheap :(

Don,

I'd have to agree with keeping what you have. I don't think you have to question strength. Historically what were people doing before the bigger is better craze? Just beefing what they had. Unsprung weight and ground clearance are the two biggest reasons I kept 1/2ton running gear. I'm sure the 4.3 has enough power with the right gearing. How many crawlers are still running 4 cylinders? That old addage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind.

just my .02

Mike

Edited by mikeanddepsy

Thanks for the input guys....anyone else have any comments?  I like the 39 IROKS and also the 38.5 TSL SX.  If I stay with Toyota axles I will need to tub the front firewall to clear the larger and wider tires.  It will also be required to go with less back spacing on the new wheels to provide the same frame clearance (rear) and leaf spring clearance (front) for now.  Less back spacing also means more stress on the ears of the balls and knuckles...this is what concerns me.

Don

Stock Dana 60 35 spline short side axle .........6,500 / 35
Longfield 4340 30 spline (shaft failure) ........8,500 / 175

With 30 spline longfields, birfields are no longer an issue with a Toyota front axle. 8,500 ft/lbs and 175 degrees of torsional twist. And these are tested at full lock on the steering.

$645 is a small price to pay to be able to thrash your rig all day and not ever worry about breaking a birfield.

MMMMMMMM..........BEEFY

 

98TJ wrote: Nick, I'm pretty sure Cole has broken Longfields on his truck, but that was a while back.  Are the 30 spline Longfields in your photo different from the Longfields he had?  New and improved? Brad

Cole had All Pro's profields a few years ago. They tested to be WEAKER than stock. Needless to say they broke. After that he bought a birfield eliminator kit.

As shown here:

This kit uses chromoly shafts with dana 44 u-joints . Cole even used OX joints with this kit, but it broke also. And when it broke there was not enough room inside the knuckle for all those broken pieces, and it broke the whole knuckle off. Not a pretty sight.

The birfield eliminator is barely stronger than stock. Profields are weaker than stock. Here's the #'s

                                                                 ft/lbs        deg/twist

Stock Toyota Birf........................4,200......45
Profield Birf............................3,500......30
Longfield 4340 30 spline used............8,500.....175 (shaft failure)
Yukon 4340 Birf Elim 30 spline...........5,000......50 (ear failure)

alabamatoy wrote: [QUOTE=bluetoy] $645 is a small price to pay to be able to thrash your rig all day and not ever worry about breaking a birfield. [/QUOTE] Dammit, Nick, stop spending my money like this!!!!!

+1.

OK....next question....I'm still running the OEM 4.10 gears.....with 38.5 should I go to 4.88 gears?  How much weaker will they be?  Also my diffs are 4 cylinder ones not V6.  How much more stength is in the V6 units? Does anyone have one of them if so how much?  Of course my locker would no longer fit right.

Now for the rear end...my stock axles have runout so if I stay Toy I will likely upgrade them to chromo ones.  Are Marlins chromo replacements as strong as they get?

thanks,

Don

Don, I think your too worried about this. It's not like your going from 36's to 44's. I say buy the longfields, marlin's chromo rear shafts and wheel the crap out of it. You don't abuse your rig, so I think it will hold up fine.

Keep the 4.11's and 4cyl 3rds. You've got a 4.3 & auto with dual cases. You probably wouldn't even notice any difference with 4.88s. Plus if you do break a set of 4.11s I'll give you another set. I've probably got 15 or 20 factory 4.11 gear sets that I've saved when I installed lower gears for someone. I would be glad to give you a few sets.

I think your next weak link will be the t-case output shaft. This is the downfall to running 4.11 gears in the axles vs. a lower gear. It puts more stress on the t-case. I know of a guy who put chevy 1/2 ton under a toyota, left the factory gears in the chevy axles with 38" tsl's. He had a crawler, so in double low it was geared low enough, but since it was geared really high in the axles he was constantly breaking the t-case output due to the added stress on the driveline. That is if the chevy 1/2 ton axles held up long enough to break the output. (this guy broke a lot of stuff) 

Longfield sells a chromoly output shaft for $220 that is almost twice as strong as stock. I would worry more about this breaking than any of the other stuff you mentioned, but I still wouldn't be too concerned about it.

 

 

dontoy wrote:  Do you know how hard it is to install the chromoly output shaft into the transfer case.....special tools required etc?

It's no worse than installing a dual t-case. No special tools other than a bearing splitter, a press, and some good split ring pliers. Toyota tranfer cases are fairly easy to disassemble and reassemble.

Great! I'm only working 6 days a week. I really need something to do in between church services on sunday, my only day off  I wouldn't want to get bored.

 

Seriously though, I'll do it if you pull the t-case, clean it up and bring it to me. I can do it in one evening after work. I don't care to take on little projects, but I just don't have time for anything major. I've had enough people wanting me to work on, or build something lately that I probably couldn't do it all if I went full time. I usaully leave Skyline around 5:00 am, drive to h'ville, leave work around 4:30 pm, drive home and then work out in my shop till about 9:30 pm. I do this same routine almost every day. I don't know how my wife puts up with it.

Rockbuggy wrote:  The only reason Nick  works so much is to keep me from showing him up on the trails

 

This is true. Ya'll see the Jeep in his avatar. It's a beast, and I just can't hang with it.

Sounds rough Nick....at least she knows where you are and your off the streets and out of harms way!

By the way should I go with 30 spline Chromo in the front and Marlin's Chromo rears I'm thinking about swaping the full detroit to the front and the detroit easy locker to the rear.  This would put the strongest locker in the most expensive axle. My thinking is that it would be easier to upgrade or replace the locker in the rear later should it be required.  Do you know if there would be problems with me doing this....since the gears/locker will turn the other direction when moved to the front.  Are wear patterns an issue?

thanks,

Don

dontoy wrote: detroit easy locker to the rear.

Danny told me he no longer installs EZ Lockers in the rear of anything because they just dont last.  Dont do this.

OK....the lockers stay where they are then....!

Lets here some pro's and con's between 38.5*15*15 TSL SX's and the 39*13.5*15 IROKS.  I'm leaning more towards the SX's they are tough but heavy!  I hear that the IROKS give up some traction in mud but do a little better on smooth rock.  Also I've been told the rubber compound used in the IROKS is softer thus wears faster.

Don

 I agree with rockbuggy. Iroks do exceptionally well in 1 out of 5 situations, but not so good in others. I really like his 38x12.50 SX's. They rock .  His brother (the red toy in my first post) runs 38.5x14.50 SX's and they do great also, but I think I like the 12.50s better than the 14.50s. Just my opinion.

Rockbuggy wrote: WoW.....just for that you can drive that u can drive that Heep in my avatar

 

Oh yeah - I would personally suggest going to an ARB front.  IMHO, selectable lockers are the NUMBER ONE way to keep from breaking front axle parts.

But yeah - I would never recommend a Detroit for the front of a Toyota axle - that would be the top way TO break front axle parts.

-DRM- wrote: Oh yeah -  I would never recommend a Detroit for the front of a Toyota axle - that would be the top way TO break front axle parts.

I don't understand this either . I thought the top way to break an axle was excessive use of the skinny pedal when climbing a tough obstacle. This is when I see axles break.

I don't think the brand of locker has a lot to do with breaking an axle. If you've got a selectable locker and your beating the crap out of your rig with the front un-locked trying to climb something, thats just silly. Why spend big money on an ARB just to use it as a last resort if all else fails. If I've got a locker, both of my front wheels better be pulling.

bluetoy wrote: but I just don't see an advantage to a front selectable locker versus an automatic locker.

It's not rocket science:

With a selectable locker, you are not constantly hammering on the axle parts just putting along on the trail - you are only using it when you need it.

Ask around - people with selectable lockers break less front axle parts.

-DRM- wrote: It has to do with the design differences of a detroit vs. a drop in locker.  One is worse in a front application than the other - because of how they operate.

I agree with you there. A detroit is a little more harsh than a lunchbox locker in a front application, but niether is half as bad as an ARB when it's locked.

I just don't like the fact that when an ARB is engaged, you can't steer it. I run a lot of trails that require the front to be locked for long distances, and I like being able to turn the steering wheel.

Anywho, I guess that's why they make different brands. To each his own  

dang no fight