Rocket City Rock Crawlers Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > Laws and Land Use Issues
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


 Post Reply Post Reply
alabamatoy View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
I dont work here anymore...

Joined: 16 February 2004
Location: Signal Mountain
Status: Offline
Points: 9356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alabamatoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: YOUR COMMENTS NEEDED TO HALT ESA ABUSE!
    Posted: 10 June 2004 at 6:34am
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:56:03 -0600
To: <>
Dear Subscriber:
As most of you are aware, the Endangered Species Act (ESA) has become little
more than a tool fringe anti-access groups use to eliminate most human use
and management of Public Lands and National Forests.
The American Sand Association (ASA) and the BlueRibbon Coalition are doing
something about it! WE NEED YOUR HELP TODAY!
Recent Congressional hearings have highlighted many of the ESA?s abuses.
Western Governors now agree that the time for reform is now. Legislation that
will reform the ESA is being looked at seriously in Congress. RIGHT NOW,
there is an opportunity for the OHV community to make a difference on this
We have formulated several specific ACTION ITEMS that will effectively show
the need for reform and maximize the grass roots voice of the OHV community.
Please take a minute and help the ASA and the BlueRibbon Coalition make a
We have set up a comment letter the BlueRibbon Coalition (BRC) Rapid Response
Resource Center, so please take a few minutes to send your letter and write
your own specific comments on the issue of ESA Reform. To use the BRC online
comment letter, please go to:
Attend the American Sand Association (ASA) Protest Rally for Friday, June
11th in Carlsbad, California at the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service (FWS)
western office. Details can be found at
"REFORM THE ESA" is the protest's theme. The ESA passed more than 30 years
ago, has proved ineffective in protecting species at risk. Anti-access groups
now abuse the original intent of the law to further their personal agendas,
so the ASA and BRC sees the need to have the ESA amended. "We are expecting
hundreds of RVs, dune buggies, and other off-road-related vehicles to join
the rally," says Jim Colln, Board Member and ASA's protest rally organizer.
Join Jim and the ASA at the protest rally!
Click here for details:
Thanks for your help!
Brian Hawthorne
Public Lands Director
BlueRibbon Coalition
The BlueRibbon Coalition is a national recreation group that champions
responsible use of public and private lands, and encourages individual
environmental stewardship. It represents over 10,000 individual members and
1,100 organization and business members, for a combined total of over 600,000
recreationists nationwide. 1-800-258-3742.
The American Sand Association is a grass-roots, 501c(4) non-profit
organization of sand sports enthusiasts. The ASA works hand-in-hand with
other groups who also fight for multiple-use access to sand areas. The ASA
seeks to improve OHV safety and promote responsible land use. The ASA is an
all-volunteer organization with no paid staff. Additional information can be
found on our web site at: .
***** END ALERT ***** END ALERT ***** END ALERT ***** END ALERT *****
You are receiving this email because you are currently
subscribed to a BlueRibbon Coalition email list. To remove
yourself from this list, go to this link:
"If you didnt buy your 1st gen 4Runner new, then YOU are a newbie!!"

BRC Life Member
Back to Top
Doc Savage View Drop Down
RCRC Club Visitor
RCRC Club Visitor

Joined: 16 February 2004
Location: Huntsville, Madison County
Status: Offline
Points: 1180
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doc Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2004 at 6:58am

See the post on the LUN where the Prebles field mouse (on the endangered species list) is DNA identicle to a common field mouse? Evidence that it isn't a species at all, yet has cost over an extimated $100 million in lost business/added regulations in CA. FWS is supposed to "reconsider" the listing in light of this.



Past President, Rocket City Rock Crawlers
Past President, Madison County CERT Association
Back to Top
CJ7OX View Drop Down
RCRC Club Member
RCRC Club Member

Joined: 17 February 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1868
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJ7OX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2004 at 8:27am

Here you go!


Research: Endangered Mouse Never Existed
Research Indicates Species of Endangered Mouse in Wyoming Never Actually Existed

The Associated Press

CHUGWATER, Wyo. June 11, 2004 After six years of regulations and restrictions that have cost builders, local governments and landowners an estimated $100 million, new research suggests the "threatened" Preble's mouse in fact never existed. It instead seems to be genetically identical to the Bear Lodge meadow jumping mouse, which is considered common enough not to need protection.
The new research could lead to removal from Endangered Species Act protection. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service plans to decide in December.

"We're trying to be deliberate in our work, trying to get the best science we can and review of the science we do have, in making this decision. Because we know it is very important and serious to a lot of people," said Ralph Morgenweck, regional director of the service in Denver. "But I would also say it is a lot more complicated than what it appears to be."

The research by the Denver Museum of Nature and Science has opened a new volume of questions including what to do about landowners who have been affected, whether the Bear Lodge mouse also needs protection and whether the Endangered Species Act itself needs changes.

"If we've shown that the mouse doesn't exist, what happens to all that has been set aside? Because that's been a huge economic burden," wondered Brian Garber, assistant director of governmental relations for the Colorado Contractors Association.

Meadow jumping mice live near streams, and nearly 31,000 acres along streams in Colorado and Wyoming have been designated critical mouse habitat. That includes large parts of the Colorado Front Range, which over the past several years has been rapidly developed with strip malls and housing subdivisions.

Front Range developers and local governments have had to set aside a lot of land to protect the mouse, though if protections are lifted, that does not mean all that land can be developed. Subdivisions, for example, have roads, sewers, water lines and other infrastructure designed for a certain number of homes. In many cases, adding more homes is not feasible.

But developers would like to see restrictions, which can be both expensive and annoying, ended for future development. In one Colorado Springs, Colo., subdivision, for example, the restrictions include a requirement that cats be kept on leashes.

In rural areas, protecting the mouse has meant telling ranchers they cannot clear weeds out of their irrigation canals, reducing the amount of water that gets to their hay fields in the middle of summer. They are also restricted in how they can allow their animals to graze along streams, another regulation the LeSatzes have to work around.

On top of that, the mouse also has blocked the construction of reservoirs amid a five-year drought in the Rocky Mountains.

"The bottom line is, it has been a wonderful tool for environmental groups to try to stop things," said Kent Holsinger, attorney for Coloradans for Water Conservation and Development, which has asked the Fish and Wildlife Service to remove the mouse from federal protection.

Indeed, environmental groups are now calling for Endangered Species Act protection for the Bear Lodge mouse. They say that subspecies which had been thought to be limited to the Black Hills of South Dakota and Wyoming but now appears to exist as far south as Colorado Springs suffers from the same habitat degradation.

The Preble's mouse was established as a distinct subspecies by a study 50 years ago that was cited in the 1998 decision to declare it threatened.

The man who did the 1954 study, Philip Krutzsch, now a professor emeritus with the University of Arizona, had examined the skulls of three mice and the skins of 11 others. It was an acceptable level of scrutiny at the time but "an extremely weak inference by today's standards," said Rob Roy Ramey II, curator at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science and project leader on the new DNA research that overturns Krutzsch's conclusion.

Ramey and his colleagues analyzed mitochondrial DNA, the cell's genetic code, from several of the 12 subspecies of meadow jumping mice, which range from the Pacific to Atlantic and as far south as Georgia.

They also repeated Krutzsch's skeleton measurements, using more specimens mainly from university and museum collections and more accurate tools. They concluded that the Preble's mouse is actually a Bear Lodge meadow jumping mouse, not a separate subspecies.

Despite being reversed, Krutzsch endorses the new research and its conclusion: "It's at the cutting edge of science today and it's very thorough and comprehensive. I think it clearly defines what is true biologically."

But, inadequate as it may have been, Krutzsch's old study was the best science that had been done up until the listing of the Preble's mouse. The Endangered Species Act only requires that species protection be based on the best available science not the best possible science.

Ramey's DNA study seems likely to usurp Krutzsch's as the best science to date. But environmental groups are not willing to surrender.

They point out that Ramey's study has not been peer-reviewed. They also highlight criticism from Ramey's scientific peers that he did not compare the nuclear DNA, the molecular building blocks of entire organisms, of the mice subspecies something Ramey has begun examining at the Fish and Wildlife Service's request.

And Jeremy Nichols, spokesman for the Biodiversity Conservation Alliance in Laramie, Wyo., attacked Ramey's impartiality.

"Ramey has a clear anti-Endangered Species Act agenda," he said. "He's been testifying in Washington, D.C., in front of committees headed by members of Congress who would like nothing better than having the Endangered Species Act thrown away."

Ramey, who has studied endangered species more than 20 years, did testify in April before a House subcommittee that the Preble's mouse shows how the Endangered Species Act needs major changes. But he said his advocacy is for better science to bolster the legitimacy of endangered species status.

"I care about the act. I care about habitat. And that's why it's important to lay the issues out on the table," he said.

Ramey thinks the question of to-list or not-to-list should be based on the most up-to-date science and modern techniques. He also wants more science used in deciding the details of protecting species.

"You need to convince me that the hypothetical threats are real and observable and quantified, and set up a testable hypothesis," he said. "Otherwise it's opinion, and I don't trust opinion."

The LeSatzes, meanwhile, say the Preble's mouse has nearly caused them to throw in the towel several times. But they hope they will at last be able to build their riding arena by doing much of the design work and construction themselves if the regulations are lifted.

"A tiny little mouse comes in and changes your whole perspective," Amy LeSatz said. "I've had more of an education in endangered species than I've ever wanted."
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem. -Reagan

85ish CJ-7/06 CTD

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.